Thanks for all of your comments on this post. It is clear that many of you feel passionate about the challenging issues surrounding copyright. During this time of fluent information sharing and the collaborative nature of the online craft community, it is only natural that these issues surface. I respect your opinions about my HandMAYde is Better series this week and while I welcome the debate, I hope that all of you know that as a maker and designer myself, these issues are important to me also. Each of the posts from this week has been updated in response to your concerns.
If you would like to read the full post along with the comments, feel free to read on. I am going to get on with sewing and making things, because I don’t think we are going to find any answers today. What I hope to provide here is a supportive place for inspiration, instruction and resources. Thanks.
I’ve inadvertently started a controversy. Thanks, twitter. First, let me talk about my thoughts for doing this week of DIY knock-offs, and then let’s draw the line between art and craft. And we can open up that copyright can of worms too. Let’s lay it all out here. And let me also say that I almost never see things in black and white, so I’d love to hear your opinions and I’ll probably agree with all of you.
Really, I am truly a person who likes to make things myself and I don’t have the money to spend on expensive things (like $120 pillows). When I see things in a catalog, I do often think “I can make that”, but I usually choose to spend my own time trying to make things I’ve never seen before. For me it’s about creativity, it’s a personal challenge, and it’s my work. I still don’t consider myself an artist and I’m guessing that many of you don’t either.
I know that many of you who read this blog just really love to make things, but are looking for inspiration and ideas and may not even consider yourself to be creative. That’s what I aim to provide here — inspiration — so you can get the fulfillment of making something — whether it’s your design or not. So there’s an important distinction between art and craft. Is it your own, original idea? Then it’s art. Did you follow a pattern? Craft. I respect people for making things and don’t want anyone to feel like they need an M.F.A. to make a handbag.
So yes, you are welcome to find inspiration for your personal projects from stores, catalogs, art, etc. Does this de-value the work of the artist? I don’t think so. I think it moves it along, spreads it around and keeps it evolving. Does sharing a how-to for making a copy cross the line? Again, I don’t think so as long as people aren’t selling the knock-off.
Someone on twitter mentioned that it’s not fair because my site sells ads. If you want to see my income spreadsheets, you’ll see that I don’t earn a living from these ads, but can’t justify all the time I spend on this blog without them. I struggled with this ad issue for years, but finally chose to have ads for independent businesses. This is my personal choice and I respect those who choose to have more or less advertising on their site. I really don’t want to judge anyone’s personal choices and I thank you for not judging mine.
If you can’t afford an $88 necklace, but you can make things, why not do it? But I’d love to hear your opinion. And art is not created in a vacuum. We are influenced by a myriad of sources, both consciously and subconsciously.
Now, another thought about this week of knock-offs is that I have become too familiar with the story of companies knocking off the work of indie designers. Do I think it’s malicious? Yes – but maybe no? My guess is that there is an over-worked, underpaid designer somewhere trying to make a deadline who just takes the wrong shortcut. Now, I do think some companies may incorporate this “borrowing” into their design practices on a regular basis and honestly, no one can stop them unless it’s a flagrant and complete case of plagiarism. And that stinks all around.
Update: read this to further confuse you about the ideas of ownership and copyright in this case. And here‘s the response from Urban Outfitters.
Then there’s the Etsy seller who is just ignorant about copyright issues, but may respond politely when you ask them to please stop selling your designs. I speak from experience. People have used my patterns and my designs in both small and large-scale situations. I see it differently depending on the case and I’m always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. Does someone selling my superhero capes at their church bazaar warrant the same disdain as someone selling my design on fabric being sold on a large scale to major fabric retailers? I don’t think so. There’s just a lot of gray here, in my opinion. Gray, gray, gray.
What do you think?
Update to this post: I just wanted to make it clear that I support handmade and have promoted handmade artists on this blog for four years now. I think copying someone’s work to sell is wrong, whether you are copying from an independent designer or a large company. These projects were meant to be inspirational and for personal use only. I’d hoped to encourage people to make things — to look around in stores and realize that they can do it — more about empowerment and less about copying. And honestly, none of the (really nice) guest bloggers intended to use designs that were created by independent designers. You should check out the sites of the designers and buy something directly from them: designer of the Primal Cuts dish towels, Girls Can Tell, and the designer of the Merit Badge Necklace, Fort Standard.
I agree that there are some valid points in the comments below. I apologize for offending anyone — I can assure you that was not our intention. I hate controversy here and I just want everyone to be inspired to make stuff, which is what I think the handmade community is all about, right?
Obviously we won’t be doing this series again. So, enough of that. Have a great weekend and go make something!
Well said, and hard to argue with.
Very rationally put. There is a big difference between taking something as inspiration and ripping off a design to sell on yourself. Artists used to learn by just copying other artists’ work to figure out technique and find their own way of doing things.
Let’s put some faces behind the work you’re harmlessly knocking off: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5106/5613175023_310157290e_b.jpg
I think you can rationalize, anything, and that’s your prerogative to do so. However, I think a knock-off is a knock-off.
Also, the products of a pattern are not protected under copyright. So, if I buy a pattern for a handbag and then sell the handbags I make from that pattern, there’s no problem. However, if I make photocopies of the pattern and sell it, that’s a copyright violation. I’m tired of pattern-makers trying to be up-in-arms because someone sells the item made from the pattern.
sorry to say I respectfully disagree. It has less to do with having an MFA (which I do) and more to do with personal ethics. Your art vs craft definition is also a bit insulting, on both sides. I suggest the PBS series “Craft in America” as a bit of research in this matter. For me, the fact that “knock-off” is in the title and descriptions is the saddest part. Why not use the items you love as a starting point for inspiration (not duplication). Exercising a unique point of view and creating something personal is much more rewarding. Regardless, this is a great conversation to be having, I think it’s great that you adredsed it. Thank you.
I think that if you are looking at something and making something similar, using your own pattern for your OWN PERSONAL USE, it is not infringing on anyone’s copyright. You are not profiting from the work (except maybe indirectly from ad revenue). If you took a pattern and sold it or made things from it to sell while passing it off as your own work, that is a problem. And frankly, your pillow tutorial (or any other) is not stealing away any of Anthropologie’s business. There is such a small sector of people that will be making a pillow for themselves from the pattern and probably none of those would have bought the pillow instead. I don’t see what all the fuss is about.
Honestly, I am totally fine with crafters making knockoffs of big store items, since they rip off indie designers all the time and overall I agree with the way you see it – it’s inspiration. It’s unfortunate that in this case it was actually an indie designer behind the big store item, but since the actual design wasn’t copied verbatim, it was more just used as an inspiration, I think it is ok – especially now that it’s been figured out and credit is being given.
Thanks for addressing this issue Ellen! I think letting people know about this issue is something that will hopefully help clear up some of the gray.
Due to recent copying of my work, I am learning more about the issue, and I’m not yet completely clear yet myself when the line is crossed. I do know that when copyrighted visual works of art are copied without the permission of the copyright holder, that is unauthorized use. I also know that there are allowances for what is considered fair use of an image.
What I am very unclear on is whether posting and distributing one’s version of someone else’s artwork changes the use of that copy from personal use to an infringement. Is that person then creating some sort of value or gain for themselves using my work? Where that be comes something that I have to act on is that companies pay me for the right to reproduce my images. When someone uses my image or a copy as a basis to create value or gain for themselves without paying for the right to do so, or is distributing/reproducing that copy I don’t really have a choice but to pursue remedies to stop that.
In my experience, most DIY bloggers are good people and are not acting maliciously when they copy my work. On the contrary, they are trying to be helpful and save money. Most comply with requests to remove downloadable copies of my work very quickly, and some will remove posts. I think they are unclear as well on where that line of art/craft is.
I do know that if a copycat makes the electronic files of their derivative work available, free or not
I’m pretty sure [Best I can do :)] that profit or not is not a factor in determining infringement. I think that the question is whether someone has misappropriated someone’s intellectual property without authorization from the copyright holder. I do think though, that whether that use affects the copyright holder’s future income from that intellectual property may be considered.
An artist owns the rights to reproduce, distribute or create derivative works of their images. A copy might be considered a derivative work and get the copier into trouble.
I’m not a pattern designer nor do I sell handmade items but there is nothing in copyright law saying that someone cannot sell items made from someone else’s pattern. In fact, it is pretty clear that this is completely legal. Any phrasing suggesting otherwise on the pattern is unenforceable. This is a great site outlining how copyright works with patterns (and which cites actual case law): http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml
I think the things you are talking about, the DIY versions of pricey things, are akin to cover songs. If I, as an independent musician, decide to sing other people’s work as part of my act, do I owe them money? No. Because it is MY version of THEIR song.
Yes, it is a quandary, I agree. And, yes, there are many shades of gray. Even the law can be hard to interpret as so eloquently put by Mr. Golden. But answer this: how can a large company forbid the sale of objects that are created using materials made by their company? I’ll just go ahead and name names. Vera Bradley has people whose sole job is to continually monitor Ebay and Etsy for items made from their fabrics – usually made from their napkins and/or placements such as headbands, jewelry, etc. Then they send threatening copyright infringement letters to people with small (very small) craft businesses who are just trying to earn a little extra money on the side in this difficult economy. VB says they don’t just own the copyright to their fabric designs but also to ANYTHING made from them. They desperately try to control the secondary market (i.e., people re-selling old purses, etc.). But they are so big that no small crafter has the time, money, or intestinal fortitude to stand up to them. Until then, VB will continue to bully anyone, no matter how big or small, into complying to non-existent laws. Check this out: http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfShame/VeraBradley/VeraBradley.shtml
Lots of grey. I do think there’s a distinction between making something for yourself vs. copying something for the sake of selling it. I’d also like to think that the designers at those big “cool” stores are both talented enough themselves and respectful enough of the talents of others that they can do their own work and not directly copy the work of others for mass production. If I see a lovely but expensive pillow, or a simple appliqued skirt, I’m more likely to make my own version of that item – using my own fabric selections and aesthetic. It’s not the same item and I’m not selling it. It’s mine.
The most recent example of that retailer copying someone is a very blatant and direct copy of someone’s work. Inspiration is great. Selling direct copies is not cool. I think there’s always going to be a market for knockoffs and knockoffs are a necessary part of the design and fashion world – it’s how ideas are spread and names are made. However, I think the harm is greater than the good when it’s a large corporation copying the work of a small independent artist without compensation for her design work. Hopefully he silver lining for her will be a wider audience and customer base for her work, based on the exposure.
I’m rambling now, but that’s what shades of grey do. They make you think and process ad ramble.
I look at copyright law in regards to a meal. If I go to a restaurant and love a meal, go home and create my own version, that’s not infringing. Even if I start to sell my recipe and the meal, it’s still my work and interpretation. However, if I go to the chef, see how the dish is made, where the materials are sourced and then use the chef’s recipe as my own, that’s infringement. I think the same is true for products. Your knock-offs are not duplications of corporate products, but interpretations. If that weren’t true then it would be illegal to create anything that could be purchased in a store.
Thanks, Renee. I would like to point out that Anthropologie does not credit the designers of the necklace in their listing.
I hardly ever read these types of posts because I want my art/craft/hobby to be an outlet not an energy drain; but I respect and admire your blog Ellen so I want to just say a few things and then crawl back under my hand painted copyright free rock – – no one is losing life, liberty or millions of dollars. This is an inflated ownership/pride issue and we all know “pride cometh before a fall”. There aren’t any original ideas flying around out there. We are all flooded with images, patterns, freebies, tutorials and all of this sensory overload leaks in and influences and assists us in expressing ourselves, no matter what the medium; in some small way we all take from each other. That’s why we call it a community, this “art” we all want to be a part of. Give back. Give freely. Share freely. Encourage each other. Collaborate. Give away. Let someone else shine today. People just like you and me are experiencing heart wrenching tragedy all over the world; loss, destruction, disease and death. Oh how they would love to live a life where their biggest problem is who copied their pillow design. Remember to check in with the real world every now and then. Be grateful. Be humble. Stop whining.
Excellent post Ellen. I think you laid it all out there perfectly and I couldn’t agree more with the last part. It’s definitely gray and on a case-by-case basis.
I find inspiration from a myriad of places. I always go with the adage that there’s only many ideas under the sun so it’s all in the way you present it, your spin on it, your creative touch.
Thanks for sharing this. It’s something I think should be discussed every so often on blogs.
whoops. I mean “only so many ideas under the sun”….or “nothing new under the sun”. Sorry about that 🙂
I’m a new reader. I admit to being vaguely uncomfortable about this series of posts. Yes, being inspired to create something is fine, but I think by directly linking (and providing a how to) on a public blog, it is encouraging people to not buy the original. I don’t know about copyright laws, it just seemed a little icky – in a gray way. I’m not trying to judge and I’ve loved a lot of the ideas, it just made me pause.
Oh Lydia @the loop, how I agree with you! It really annoys me when you can’t sell stuff from a pattern – why not??
I have given this issue quite a bit of thought lately after someone mentioned something else in another post. What gets me is that bloggers very proudly hold their Anthropology or Pottery Barn “knock offs” up for approval and pats on the back all round. What would these same Bloggers say if people started doing Oliver + S knockoffs, or knockoffs from other smaller designers? The arguments I’ve seen seem to say it’s alright for the smalls to rip off the bigs, but not vice versa. Why not? Do we personally know these “big” designers? Do we know that they are “big”. OK, so their design is in a big shop, but who are they? Are they an “independent” designer who got a lucky break? Why does it matter, it’s their work and so ripping it off is the same as ripping off the work of a small designer.
My thoughts:
** People who make things are not the usually the target audience of a seller. If I make a “knock-off” of a pillow from Anthropologie that is because I wouldn’t buy it. I do buy plenty of things I can make but don’t want to. So, I guess, I don’t feel that showing how to make it costs the company revenue. Even if it’s an Etsy seller, people who are going to make it aren’t going to buy it.
** The exception is: people who are going to make a bunch and sell them. But, I honestly think those people are going to do it anyway and don’t need bloggers to show them how.
** I don’t get the ad revenue argument. You are profiting off of content, not pattern sales. I guess they are saying you’re “selling” the pattern because you sell ads? But your readers aren’t paying for anything, therefore aren’t buying the pattern. The logic, to me, sounds like a stretch.
** I do feel differently when I see a big company copying a small designer. I do agree, though, most of these cases end up being the fault of another designer employed by the company. It seems many companies recently have been “doing the right thing”, possibly due to pressure from social media. There is *very* real money when the tables are turned.
** I have seen this argument before, about how you shouldn’t copy anyone ever, though many have been doing this since, gosh, magazines, catalogs & newspapers were invented. It’s just that now, thanks to blogs & social media, we can show everyone else.
** My 10-year-old daughter just discovered that Aldi & the like “copy” other cereals. She was outraged, how can this be allowed? I explained that after a few years, the original makers lose their copyrights and others can make it as well. It encourages innovation as the leaders need to constantly change and improve to capture the market. ** I see it as gray, too.
I share your philosophy of staying positive Deanna, and I do all the positive things that you mention. But my art sales are my sole source of income and my ability to derive income from my art is heavily tied to the rights that my copyrights provide. I have a responsibility to my family and to the people who pay me to use those rights in a mutually beneficial way.
I constantly look at others’ problems because it does keep my own problems in perspective, but I don’t have the luxury of letting infringement go unchecked. I would much rather spend my day making work and filling orders. It’s a real world thing that, like or not, I have to address.
I agree that we should be humble. About everything, especially how enlightened we are.
While I don’t generally have a problem with being inspired by items seen in stores (or on Etsy) and creating one’s own versions, it does seem a little odd (for lack of a better word) that so many of this week’s projects seem to be inspired by items from Urban Outfitters and Anthropologie, which are both so well known as major offenders in the steal-ideas-from-indie-designers game. (And from the comments above, it sounds like in at least one case one of the “knocked-off” items actually originated with an indie designer.) I mean, on the one hand UO and Anthropologie have an aesthetic that appeals to indie craft blogger types, so it makes sense that people are inspired by those items. But I wonder if there’s a way in which copying items produced by a company that copies indie designers somehow begins to legitimize UO/Anthro’s practices–which seem pretty well on the dark side of gray to me.
I agree with you..It is tricky..and I think sometimes people in an effort to “support the arts” get a little bit carried away with the die hard mentality that you should never copy. I love doing a great knock off, and most of all, I love love when a great site like this one, shows me how to do it. I stay home with my little girls, my husband is a pastor who also works full time, we barely make ends meet. But I love to look through the anthro and olive juice catalogues and sometimes I do so wish I could afford just one thing. And so it means so much to me that someone will show me how to do it myself. Not so I can sell and make money, but because I could never afford the price of a brand attached to an item of clothing.
Don’t apologize for the ads, I think deep down, sometimes people just dont realize they have a lot of competitive jealousy going on.
keep up the good work…and thanks for a great series…
I want to start by saying that I have followed your blog for over a year, and I love most of what you do.
That being said, as soon as I saw the words “Knock off” on your site – my heart sank a little. That practice contributes to the detriment of so many artists just scrambling to make ends meet. It’s not a good faith thing to do – and I hope that you don’t continue to do it.
If you make a copy of something you like, because you can’t afford it – I think that’s a personal issue. Teaching others how to knock of designers and artists work, isn’t something I’d be rationalizing doing, that’s an even worse point of view if you ask me.
As far as judging you – when you put yourself out there – it’s part of it. Perhaps you can look at it as a critique, and move on knowing that you inadvertently hurt some artists. I hope you don’t continue with the knock off thing, because as an artist – i don’t care if you like the snobbery or not – but i really care if you are publicizing how to knock off others work.
I’m not so sure that there are many original ideas about when it comes to sewing. I have never seen a similar top to the smock top that I make for my daughter, but the smocking is not a new technique, the top construction is not new – I’m sure that if I looked hard enough I would find that someone somewhere has also made one. In the series you have not bought their item and deconstructed it to get the exact same pattern. Plus their designs do not seem to be that original, either – bolster pillows and pintucks are not new. So, I’m leaning towards it being inspiration, rather than anything malicious. Well known designers are happily advertising their ‘copies’ of the royal wedding dress.
Is it a knock-off when I make a peasant top, even though peasant tops have been around for centuries, because a clothing designer is also selling some? Or is it only a knock-off if I say that I was trying to copy their version? Who was their inspiration? I’m planning on making a similar shirt to the one that I saw in Target, because I did not like the fit of what they offered – is that a new design or am I knocking them off?
I like your post. I don’t really think it is wrong to try to copy a technique that you like for your own use. Unfortunately, there are people out there that will take an idea of someone else’s and profit from it. I really dislike the comment that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. So I guess I’m a shades of grey person, too.
The only time I’ve blogged about something I copied (which I rarely do but fell in love with the idea), I contacted the person who originally made it and asked for permission to do so. She used paper and I used fabric. I also linked to her Etsy store so someone could purchase the original designer’s item.
Also, I don’t give a flip that you have ads.
I guess my thoughts on this “gray” are this:
What is the difference between me, a SAHM who loves her sewing machine and scrips and saves for cheapie fabric from Hobby Lobby or JoAnn remnants and likes to create to keep her sanity because she barely makes ends meet and an “artist” who slaves away over her sewing machine to create things to sell to keep her sanity because she barely makes ends meet.
I hate to break it to people, but a printed dish towel with cuts of meat on it? My dad was president of his FFA in the seventies and they all had one. Not new. And, not “art”?
Oh yes, grey comes in alot of shades, but never in black or white…
I think it’s a problem when you copy something, but I’m not sure that you can argue that anything has been copied, I mean who has the copyright on bolster pillows..??
I agree that if you make something unique, and never before seen you have the copyright for it, but how many can say they actually made something like that in this global fashion/design/DIY/crafting buisness?
And no matter how brilliant a designer/artist you are you can never say that what you are not inspired by what others have done before you, I for one wouldn’t believe it.
That’s just some of my thoughts on this, there are many more 🙂
Shauna, I’d love to hear more about why you find Ellen’s comparison between “art” and “craft” offensive, if you are checking these comments!
Ellen, thank you for addressing this. You know this issue came up for Jenny a few weeks ago (when she emailed you for advice) and it is tricky. Someone up there mentioned how we are all bombarded by images through the internet and TV and magazines constantly, sometimes with an idea of who/where the images came from and sometimes not. I think that in some cases, copyright is valid and ownership of an idea is valid. In some cases, folks put their “do not make anything for sale from this pattern” on something that you might find on a dozen other websites.
Great questions, great comments. I don’t think there is a cut and dried answer. I think you have to look at someone’s intentions, take the time to communicate and do your best to be imaginative, creative and original in your work.
This is great discussion, and you’re right, Ellen – it’s a very nebulous landscape we’re all treading right now. Even my own thoughts on it are pretty contradictory. The thing is, if indie designers want to be upset about large companies stealing (appropriating, being inspired by) their ideas, then shouldn’t the street run two ways? Shouldn’t we be as respectful of their work as we want them to be of ours? The fact of a large corporation being seemingly huge and rich doesn’t mean there aren’t real human designers behind it.
That would be a nice reality, but the world will probably never work that way – and particularly not since the web came to town. In my opinion, there is no “owning” any inspiration or idea. As others have said here, we can only own our original expression of that idea – basically, the words and images, or objects that express it. The rest is just visual information, so easily shared and re-shared and cross-pollinated.
Personally, I stay away from designer knock-offs. I don’t agree with a $200 sofa cushion that I know was made by underpaid labor somewhere in the world, but I also don’t believe that indignation gives me license to copy the design directly. I have no problem with anyone being inspired by something they see online and making a unique, distinct version inspired by that idea. But I think that the more blantantly and publicly we knock off corporate-produced designer goods, the more we’re inviting similar treatment from them.
Thank you for opening this conversation – we do need to be having these kinds of discussions more in the community.
Heather, I just wanted to point out that musicians are supposed to receive royalties when other artists cover their work, either live or on recordings.
There’s some basic information here:
http://www.musicianwages.com/the-working-musician/recording-releasing-performing-cover-songs/
It is hilarious that anyone thinks that none of these “artists” haven’t borrowed ideas from other “artists”. I agree-if you are trying to sale these knock-offs as your own, then shame on you. These so-called “artists” could get off their high horses and realize that this imitation is one of the highest forms of flattery. I myself can not afford a $120 pillow, but if I think it is beautiful, what is wrong with re-creating it for my home?! Honestly, even if I had $120 to burn, is it the best use of my money to but ONE pillow with it? No, it isn’t. I’d rather buy the fabric I need to make pillows for every room in my house. Sometimes “artists” want too much money for their “art”.
I think it is pretty arrogant to get your panties in a wad over this. Ultimately, God is the only true artist. Everything the rest of us come up with was either inspired by the maker Himself or by others who were inspired by Him-period.
regardless of who’s done what etc, i think this is a really interesting subject and hugely relevant right now given the very recent urban outfitters debacle. i have to admit to finding the tutorials covering anthroplogie influenced designs uncomfortable reading, i can appreciate that this controversy was not the intended sentiment behind the whole project.
I’m glad Carol mentioned the copyright and royalty issues for musicians, because that jumped right out at me.
When I saw the latest dust-up over indie designers being ripped off by major retailers I was sympathetic to the designers, but you have to know that for high end designers and high end retailers alike they have to keep moving to stay one step ahead of the cheap knock-offs. The Indie designer also has to keep moving and creating something new to stay ahead of the knock-offs. Even the ones I make at home for my own use. I almost never look at any item to purchase without considering if I could make one myself instead of buying it ready made.
Isn’t copying the highest form of flattery? I am thrilled with this site. I understand that if a company is going to make millions of an item from someone’s pattern, then there is a problem. I think most of us just enjoy the inspiration that your site brings. How many are we really going to make. Unless we have a large factory where we are pumping out the softies, we are lucky to sell a few here and there to friends who are in need of a gift. As for the ads you post, hurray! It gives me sites that I feel confident that I can look at without worrying what might attach to my computer. Plus, I don’t have to do all the research. Keep up the good work. People just need to be nice to each other, whatever happened to this????
great points! i agree with you on a lot of things you had mentioned, especially about these topics (design, art, “inspirations”, etc.) being very “gray”.
This discussion is so timely and fascinating! Thank you for contributing to it here Ellen. I see all of life in shades of grey-we assign labels of right or wrong based on our own moral compass, culture & experiences. But while all our truths are different I think when we are sharing something on the internet we need to decide whether it contributes to the community we are a part of or whether it takes away from it.
I am really interested in ethics & we spent a month sharing posts on OMHG on the theme-I keep wanting to go back to it though since it’s such a vital topic.
I am all for creative influence, borrowing, sharing of ideas-but I don’t think it benefits anyone to directly copy something intentionally. A week of DIY inspiration where crafters take on themes or popular trends, yes! But knock-off doesn’t sit well for me. When UO or Anthro or the Gap or another big corp. sell designs by an indie designer we are upset. If we wouldn’t post a tutorial showing how to make another indie artists work & use their business name + product photo then it just feels wrong to do it for a big company too.
All that being said, if you feel it is totally okay and your readers are comfortable with it then this is your space. It’s of course your call & I’ll keep reading whatever your decision as there are lots of original ideas here. I am happy to see this being discussed respectfully all over the place today & learning about how the ethics of handmade look for others.
I design crochet and knitted bags. I explicitly say in my pattern that the buyer can do whatever they want with the items they make but can’t sell the pattern itself. It is a gray area because many designers feel otherwise. As for knock offs, I think it would be totally ok if someone saw a picture of one of my designs and made it themselves without buying the pattern. I mean at the end of the day that person was never really my target client anyway for whatever reason.
I also suggest you might want to watch this talk from TedEx about the free or open culture of the fashion industry http://blog.ted.com/2010/05/25/lessons_from_fa/ Basically her idea is that it is all open and none of the ideas are *really* original. Maybe the case of Urban Outfitters knocking off an Indie designer is different because it is more like photocopying a book and pretending they wrote it.
Treating each other with respect and honesty is important. It may be simply credit where credit is due, or it may be paying the artist or the crafter for work that he or she has done (design wise) that I have not.
I had to think about this for a bit before replying. I turned my response into a blog post, if you care to read. 🙂
Thanks for your thoughtful response, Patricia. I’m glad to hear different opinions.
As I posted earlier, I am still learning more about these issues myself. One thing I have learned is that copyright infringement of visual works of art can put you on the hook for up to $30,000 per infringed image. If it is found that you have willfully infringed copyright on a visual work of art, that penalty can be up to $150,000 per image. And you may have to pay court costs as well.
Don’t know how that applies to fashion, decor, etc.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. If you have the skills to make something for cheaper that would normally cost an arm and a leg, go for it, as long as you aren’t selling your “knock-offs”. Thank you for writing honestly on this subject 🙂
i posted + deleted + posted + deleted here, then composed a comment that was far too wordy (and frankly, deviated a bit from the post at hand). so i posted that over on my blog.
what i will say here is that i can’t emphasize enough how important it is to support the makers, the inspirers, the working creative class, the artists, the content generators.
if what you’re doing detracts from independent, hard working people who are pushing new things out there in any way, it’s not quite right, and you probably know that.
be an educated buyer – who made what you’re buying? not all little companies are sunshine + cupcakes, and not all products at large companies were made in asweatshops. transparency is key and we, as consumers, should demand more of it. tutorials should be written to evoke creativity + help work through the nuts + bolts of a project, not copy anyone’s work word for word.
all in all, i’m happy to see this discussion happening in so many places + forms – it’s a long overdue conversation.
Dear Ellen, I love your blog, it has long been an inspiration to me. And while I don’t have a lot of information to add to the copyright/knock off/art v craft debate, I just want to tell you that I love the incredible amount of inspiration that I can find over here, be it an original design by you, by someone else, or a how to make your own inspired from the pages of high end/expensive/not available in my area stores/magazines/websites/etc. Thank you for being willing to have this discussion. Thinking about doing it myself kind of makes me cry, so good for you for being brave enough to do it your self. If I knew where you lived I’d send you cupcakes. Lots and lots of cupcakes. (Those help in stressful situations, right?) Have a great weekend, and please don’t stop spreading inspiration around the internet. We all need pretty things in our lives, no matter who designed them.
love erika
Imitation does not feel flattery in my case. A few nuggets of “flattery” that have accompanied posts knocking off my work:
I thought these were cute. But $89 cute?
I love these, but there’s no way I am paying $89 for them!
And my favorite, the inevitable comment:
Yours look even better than the inspiration. Can I have the file?
There is so much about this post that bothers me, i don’t even know where to start. The issue at hand: Good karma has returned to the ‘original maker” in terms of 10s of 1000s of dollars in new sales. However, it has been made clear that the “original” maker was not the first person to make this work. You can read about that here: http://www.regretsy.com/2011/05/27/urban-outrage/
I am not a pattern designer, but I am close with quite a few professional knitwear designers. Their patterns always have a small paragraph stating that work created from the pattern is for personal use only, and not for sale. Of course, one can tinker and modify the pattern, making it their own, but if it still resembles the original, you can’t sell it. If it is recognizable as someone else’s, then it’s not yours. If the images were taken from public domain and slapped on a tea towel, then it’s not yours to sell either. it isn’t much different from sampling someone else’s music and using it in your own ‘new” creation. And for what it’s worth, musical artists have to pay a royalty for tracks and beats that they’ve taken from other sources in addition to giving writer’s credit, even if the borrowed beat is 40 years old.
Lastly, I find your definition of “craft” is very offensive, both as a maker and a collector. Craftsmanship requires a particular skill set and mastery of materials as well as the talent, inspiration and imagination to make something unique. To be able to sculpt something out of wood, or marble, or clay, is a unique talent, and has nothing to do with “following a pattern”. I can cook. That doesn’t make me Martha Stewart. This “Art v. Craft” debate has been going on for eons.
I have no problem with DIY, with sharing making methods or ideas. I have also often thought “oh, i can make that” – and i often can and do, but for myself, or maybe as a gift for a friend. But selling it and profiting by it, and making money off of someone else’s work and development process (and livelihood) merely because you assembled it (and maybe put a bird on it) is NOT art or craftsmanship, and it’s also really really wrong. If you can find something new to say out of an old or average process, then it’s yours to sell. From your own unique voice.
And to the person who claimed “copying is the sincerest form of flattery” – then why are we having this discussion about Urban Outfitters? Should the copied artist be flattered, and not pissed off? It can’t be both ways.
Misslo: word.
I came back to post the same link *I read this post this morning, and have been thinking about it all day. When I read the regretsy post, I had some stuff boil over and I came back.
Craft, crafting, craftsmanship are all reference to one who practices a craft with great skill. Artists are craftsmen in their own right. That includes those who make their own version of a product in a way that clearly identifies it as their own idea and makes it work for their particular purpose.
The dividing line in my mind is “WHAT makes it clearly and openly your particular spin on this old idea? ”
I have to go back to what my English teacher told me in high school *that’s 20 years ago!* poetry is only created by saying something old, in a new way. No one is the first one experiencing that emotion which drives them to write a poem, but their words are their unique take on their personal experience.
Also, while we’re on the topic of knockoffs or whatever we’re calling the practice of copying design…how many of us have bought a dress or blouse from wal mart or target or other store which is a copy of a runway dress? They are profiting from the design work someone else did. It is a circle and the lines can become blurred as to what is morally acceptable AND what is lawful or what is wrong.
We all need to encourage and support each other as we build our skills and our portfolio, no one will ever have the exact same view of copy right or trademark, the important thing is to give credit where ever and when ever it is due, no matter how small you may think it is.
I don’t agree with your definition of art versus craft. I’m pretty hesitant to say so, since it’s such a huge debate, but it’s too simplistic. I know I can’t adequately explain what bothers me about it so I probably shouldn’t even comment. But here I am, sigh. So is the person with the idea the artist, and the person who executes just a craftsman? (And I don’t even think there’s any such thing as “just” a craftsman. I’d say there’s artistry in any craft.) If the artist has an idea and then churns out a whole bunch of items based on it, is he still an artist, or has he moved to craftsman, following his own pattern, until he comes up with another idea?
I don’t even want to jump into the copyright debate. I’ve seen enough of that on Ravelry to last a lifetime or two.